I just read an interesting account of the founding of the Jesuits, talking about the process where those first few men worked to discern the nature of their relationship to one another. They'd made shared vows to Jesus, yes, but was the next step to form an Order and enter into a vow of obedience to the group?

This makes me wonder about how you understand vows and religious Orders in your life. To whom do you feel vowed (or called to make vows)? What is the difference (in your life) between doing so with a group (an Order) and doing so alone with Christ?

Do you feel yourself vowed to (or called to vow to) obedience to the Order (OEF or another)? If so, how is this manifested? If not, how do you understand the function of the Order in your spiritual life and in your vow to live in the spirit of obedience? How does this differ from your other relationships in life (workplace, church, family - which may or may not be vowed relationships)?

An understanding of the history and development of the religious life is most helpful in putting the issues into context. The following link will take you to an article which is useful in defining that context.

I acknowledge that the article is Roman Catholic and old. Please do not assume that I am suggesting that it is in some way superior for that reason: I am not. Nonetheless, it gives an analysis from which the discriminating mind may extract some important pointers to adapt to their own denominational environment. In any event I believe it predates the reforms of the second Vatican Council, and thus no longer even reflects contemporary RC practice.

oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Religious_Life

Thank you Colin! I should probably admit that really I was fishing for personal reflections - the "you" in my post wasn't a rhetorical somebody but really - you. I'm curious about this most lovely and motley collection of folks, called by some miracle to be my brothers and sisters. What does obedience, in the context of this religious order, mean to you?

I understand, but believe that we are best able to form personal views by having regard to the precedents set by those who have walked the path for 2000 or so years before us. That does not mean accepting everything which has gone before: in fact it may prompt us energetically to reject certain things, but at least it should help us to direct our minds to relevant questions which we might never otherwise have thought of. It's a little like not trying to reinvent the wheel. Peace! Thomas

Maybe I ought to go first

In life there are many things I do and feel I ought to do that aren't prompted by a spirit of obedience. I feed our pets not because I feel obedient to them (insistent as they may be) but because I have chosen to be their caretaker. I exercise patience with my child, not out of obedience to her or even to God, but because I believe it is best for her welfare. I attempt to show up on time for work because I am trusted to do so and I value that relationship (and my employment). I'm supposed to report on Thomas Aquinas for my homework tomorrow (and probably will if I quit playing around online) - why? because I'm curious, I value my classmates time and I don't want to look stupid. I act obedient in those circumstances - but I'm not moved by a spirit of obedience any different than I ever have or than any person ever might.

But the Order feels different. The first day I came to a regional meeting, it was pouring rain, I'd driven 12 hours with a crying child in the backseat and I was now surrounded by strangers - I was given a choice of picket signs and out the door we all walked (child headed off to a nice dry museum with her dad) to go stand on a street corner in a town I'd never set foot in before, to get soaked to the skin, protesting for peace.

There have been other things too of course: fetch food for a party, design worship services, write something for the newsletter, even to visit some strange website (oh wait, that's this one) - stuff that I might ordinarily do or not. But the sensation of responding obediently to those requests is entirely different. How can I describe it? A mixture of love and humility, an almost willing suspension of disbelief, a release of investment in the outcome. It is a walking-with, an entering into lightness - together, we will see what will be. There is some strange joy in this companionable walk, a practice of patience and wonder in agreeing to participate in one another vision's. To seek in community to be accountable - obedient - to God, in all things.

Dear Sister in Christ and in Francis and Clare,
Being a member of a religious order necessitates a commitment to go a step further. All people are called to holiness, so that cannot be the purpose of the consecrated life. It requires an additional intention, characterised by taking vows to follow some or all of the evangelical counsels of poverty, chastity and obedience ( in our case their spirit ) and some orders adopt additional vows.
The taking of personal vows can be a private act, but traditionally the main Orders require a public profession of those vows. Thereafter, the vows and the life style they signify must be lived out, and must be seen to be lived out in the public eye: hence the adoption of the religious habit or other visible symbol of having take that step. The life is different from and more demanding than the basic duty of the disciple. Of course, not everyone here will agree with all that I have said, especially concerning the habit, but the principle seems clear: we vow to go further and must demonstrate that publicly. Peace! Thos.

I have written generally in previous posts to draw attention to what I consider important objective principles--and hope you agree!
I now want to write separately about the more personal implications of your question.
In specific terms, in giving my vows, I feel that I attached myself with deliberate intent to Christ, to Francis and Clare and to my brothers and sisters in the Franciscan family—most especially in the OEF.
That sanctifies and reinforces my efforts to live the evangelical counsels and connects me to this my family so that I may give and receive strength in my efforts.
It is a sort of spiritual marriage.
Francis said, “This is what I want”, and had no brothers or sisters when he made that decision. However. we are blessed with each other.
Each of us has to work out how we will interpret and perform our vow to live in the spirit of poverty, chastity and obedience, but we do not do it alone since we are in vowed community with each other.
Thomas

Thank you for all of your reflections, Colin I'm enjoying talking with you.

I'm fascinated with the tension between this notion of "more" and also being lesser (as in the Little Portion, the Friars Minor, Clare's being a little plant, Jesus's "least of these").

I'm reminded of something my old spiritual director said about being ordained as about joining the "slow learner's club". Understanding that extra education and what another friend once called "being zapped" by the Bishop were not things that lifted her above other people, but rather were expressions of her need for extra help to live out the life God gave her - extra help that "regular" folks did not require. All around us are examples of people doing extraordinary things, living lives of remarkable service and prayer, without recognition or titles. That I require vows to do what others do naturally must never be a source of pride, but rather (for me) must always be an admission of weakness.

Thank you for reminding me of this.

Alison: reading through this thread, and I came across this post. I really like the way your spiritual director framed this!

"The slow learners" club - and your statement " That I require vows to do what others do naturally must never be a source of pride, but rather (for me) must always be an admission of weakness." That really rings with truth for me too.


Thanks for sharing that!

Bob

Peace and All Good!

My profound awareness is that, being created in God's loving image, I have been called especially to the Franciscan vocation. That the Trinity is about relations, as is community.

I can be a Franciscan without vows, but I can't fully answer this particular call in my life, without others to walk with on the way. I know- I tried- and for me it was much like a recipe missing an essential ingredient.

Called to be the leaven and not the whole loaf,
I am only one part of the whole as the Creator ordains. When I made solemn profession, I was well aware that I was not only making public vows to God, but to the Order, its statutes, and the members at large. To me, its all relational.

Now, having said that, I praise God for the gifts of my vocation and the vows that are present, and remain utterly thankful for this calling, this Order and many of the dear members whom I've had the gift of their love, freely shared and given, in community.

In Jesus,

DL

Thank You Alison for the Question.

Sorry for being so late in getting around to answering it. I have thought long and hard about being a part of this community...but have not done a lot about growing into it. That means I have to commit to my engagement, which I have not done very well. You Alison were one of the first people to greet me when I signed onto this site. Making some of that New England Retreat was a blessing. I went back to some intense work within my Quaker Community and then some intense interaction with prostate cancer. I am healing, tired but healing and in good spirit. To follow in the footsteps of Francis and Clare is no easy task. I've walked the hills of their home turf in Italy, and realized they were just people. I really can't do the deep Spirit stuff that I believe is important without a community of support. While I have a support community within my Quaker tradition, I want more. As part of an Order I am tied to a community linked to a tradition I have always loved and I must engage. So I plan to be in Detroit and be open to where we may be led to go, knowing that we may not be called to take easy steps.

By throwing in my lot with an Order and being accepted within that community down the road, I am strengthened and nourished. Hopefully I help others on that same path...And some will see us and say, "See how they love one another." We stand as signs for one another, and the world!